I'm a big fan of everclear as my alcohol solvent of choice as well. I don't use it enough the the cost savings over lab-grade is worth it for me.
Also, pure EtOH is hygroscopic and will absorb atmospheric moisture, you'll probably end up pretty close to the same place given enough time (95% EtoH, 5% H-OH) unless you're VERY serious about how you handle and store it.
I used to monitor by KF the water content of the 200 proof ethanol (screw cap glass bottle stored in my hood) I was using for work. It would take me 3 months or so to go through a bottle and I'd see ~0.1% to 0.2% water content increase by the time I used it up. Based on that I figured as long as I was going through whatever I bought for woodworking within 6 months I'd still see the benefits of buying the 200 proof stuff. I think it dissolves shellac noticeably better (as compared to 190 proof), although maybe that's just confirmation bias because I expect it to.
editing to add that this was in the Colorado high desert, so results may vary if you live somewhere significantly more humid.
Your point is good to keep in mind, I think if you had a 5 gallon container of 200 proof that took a long time to get though and that would have a lot of headspace in the container after using some of it up you might be better off buying 190 proof instead.
Thanks for sharing some solid info. I knew denatured was pretty gnarly stuff, but thought only ingestion was the primary concern. One of the few benefits of living in OK is that its easy to get 190 proof ethanol from the liquor store, so its my go to for shellac. It's always fun to read how people's experience outside of woodworking shape/inform their work.
I wonder how much 190 proof ethanol that gets bought from liquor stores is just woodworkers using it for shellac vs people buying it to actually drink.
Super useful information. Thanks for putting this out there. I am similarly concerned about folks using denatured alcohol in enclosed spaces and because if my lack of ventilation, I use 200 proof and have been for years.
Glad I'm not the only one! For me the extra price of 200 proof ethanol does not seem so significant for the quantities I use especially since it eliminates any risk.
I have found a great source of ethanol for use with shellac to be “Bio-Ethanol” sold for use with camping stoves etc.
I believe it still contains some of the problematic chemicals but smaller amounts of as well as no purple dye as with Methylated Spirits here in the UK.
I’ve been wanting to look at citrus solvents for a long time, but the vagueness of the composition (at least in the UK) has been problematic.
Is D-Limonene different from d-Limonene. Are there other chemical additives in “Citrus Degreaser” (UK)? Is Orange Oil just a really expensive option for obtaining citrus solvents? Does any of the above matter when it comes to their use as a solvent for an oil/wax blend, AKA when I heat them up to blend into a wax, am I producing any harmful vapours?
All questions I haven’t been able to get a straight answer for, so any information on the topic would be much appreciated!
In the US at least most things labeled citrus solvent are just d-limonene (which is the same is D-limonene). You could try searching d-limonene instead of citrus solvent to get things labeled a little more clearly. Its looks like Odie's Oil sells what is straight d-limonene in the UK. d-limonene is one of the components in orange peels and I think most of it is produced as a byproduct from orange juice production. My guess is it's solvent extracted from the peels and then distilled off. It can be a skin irritant for some folks and I would not ingest non-food grade versions of it, but it's safe for use in the workshop for sure. I use d-limonene when I make the beeswax/linseed oil finish I use. I usually mix it in after I take the oil/wax off the heat to minimize it evaporating off.
Orange oil is the product of cold pressing orange peels, so it contains d-limonene along with a bunch of other stuff. I would not use this as a solvent to thin out oil/wax blends because it is so expensive and would add various non-volatile compounds to the mixture.
I just checked the SDS for a few things labeled citrus degreaser and they are all wildly different compositions, but usually contain d-limonene as a component. I would not use any of these products as a solvent to thin out oil/wax blends.
I was having this discussion with a friend and fellow woodworker a few months ago. He lives in California and can't even buy denatured alcohol locally. I'd really like to understand why we have to denature the alcohol in the first place since it seems to make it more dangerous. The only reason I can think of, is avoiding a tax that probably shouldn't be there anyway.
I think you're right about the tax reasons. There may also be some component if it's not denatured then anywhere selling it would need an alcohol license and safeguards in place to make sure minors can't get it. It does seem like a problem worth thinking about though, seems much safer to let people access ethanol without toxic additives for use as a solvent.
I'm a big fan of everclear as my alcohol solvent of choice as well. I don't use it enough the the cost savings over lab-grade is worth it for me.
Also, pure EtOH is hygroscopic and will absorb atmospheric moisture, you'll probably end up pretty close to the same place given enough time (95% EtoH, 5% H-OH) unless you're VERY serious about how you handle and store it.
I used to monitor by KF the water content of the 200 proof ethanol (screw cap glass bottle stored in my hood) I was using for work. It would take me 3 months or so to go through a bottle and I'd see ~0.1% to 0.2% water content increase by the time I used it up. Based on that I figured as long as I was going through whatever I bought for woodworking within 6 months I'd still see the benefits of buying the 200 proof stuff. I think it dissolves shellac noticeably better (as compared to 190 proof), although maybe that's just confirmation bias because I expect it to.
editing to add that this was in the Colorado high desert, so results may vary if you live somewhere significantly more humid.
I’ll defer to you, I’m just going off a hazy memory from my Ochem prof. Not a real scientist.
I’m sure there’s a marginal benefit to the 200 proof good good.
Reminds me, I need to keep searching for a stir plate…
Search on eBay and reuse stores. I found an unused water bath for cheap that way. I'll see hot/stir plates in good shape as well occasionally.
Your point is good to keep in mind, I think if you had a 5 gallon container of 200 proof that took a long time to get though and that would have a lot of headspace in the container after using some of it up you might be better off buying 190 proof instead.
It's amazing how handy a stir plate can be!
Thanks for sharing some solid info. I knew denatured was pretty gnarly stuff, but thought only ingestion was the primary concern. One of the few benefits of living in OK is that its easy to get 190 proof ethanol from the liquor store, so its my go to for shellac. It's always fun to read how people's experience outside of woodworking shape/inform their work.
I wonder how much 190 proof ethanol that gets bought from liquor stores is just woodworkers using it for shellac vs people buying it to actually drink.
And hobby perfumers! My local shop told me the two main uses were woodworking and perfume. They ask everyone who buys it what it’ll be used for.
That makes sense! I suppose probably better uses for it than drinking it.
Super useful information. Thanks for putting this out there. I am similarly concerned about folks using denatured alcohol in enclosed spaces and because if my lack of ventilation, I use 200 proof and have been for years.
Glad I'm not the only one! For me the extra price of 200 proof ethanol does not seem so significant for the quantities I use especially since it eliminates any risk.
I have found a great source of ethanol for use with shellac to be “Bio-Ethanol” sold for use with camping stoves etc.
I believe it still contains some of the problematic chemicals but smaller amounts of as well as no purple dye as with Methylated Spirits here in the UK.
I’ve been wanting to look at citrus solvents for a long time, but the vagueness of the composition (at least in the UK) has been problematic.
Is D-Limonene different from d-Limonene. Are there other chemical additives in “Citrus Degreaser” (UK)? Is Orange Oil just a really expensive option for obtaining citrus solvents? Does any of the above matter when it comes to their use as a solvent for an oil/wax blend, AKA when I heat them up to blend into a wax, am I producing any harmful vapours?
All questions I haven’t been able to get a straight answer for, so any information on the topic would be much appreciated!
In the US at least most things labeled citrus solvent are just d-limonene (which is the same is D-limonene). You could try searching d-limonene instead of citrus solvent to get things labeled a little more clearly. Its looks like Odie's Oil sells what is straight d-limonene in the UK. d-limonene is one of the components in orange peels and I think most of it is produced as a byproduct from orange juice production. My guess is it's solvent extracted from the peels and then distilled off. It can be a skin irritant for some folks and I would not ingest non-food grade versions of it, but it's safe for use in the workshop for sure. I use d-limonene when I make the beeswax/linseed oil finish I use. I usually mix it in after I take the oil/wax off the heat to minimize it evaporating off.
Orange oil is the product of cold pressing orange peels, so it contains d-limonene along with a bunch of other stuff. I would not use this as a solvent to thin out oil/wax blends because it is so expensive and would add various non-volatile compounds to the mixture.
I just checked the SDS for a few things labeled citrus degreaser and they are all wildly different compositions, but usually contain d-limonene as a component. I would not use any of these products as a solvent to thin out oil/wax blends.
I was having this discussion with a friend and fellow woodworker a few months ago. He lives in California and can't even buy denatured alcohol locally. I'd really like to understand why we have to denature the alcohol in the first place since it seems to make it more dangerous. The only reason I can think of, is avoiding a tax that probably shouldn't be there anyway.
I think you're right about the tax reasons. There may also be some component if it's not denatured then anywhere selling it would need an alcohol license and safeguards in place to make sure minors can't get it. It does seem like a problem worth thinking about though, seems much safer to let people access ethanol without toxic additives for use as a solvent.